42 ответов в теме

[Kromy]

Ok, before the spammers take this section down again, I'm hoping to present something one might find interesting.

The thing is called "Another Red Diary" (Mo hitotsu no akano nikki) and originally is a part of the Joseph's Red Diary we read in the game, but this part was not included in the game itself -- instead, it was published on the official Konami's SH4 site before it was taken down. As of now, its entries are always included in the list of memos on Japanese SH fan sites. A member of SHF.co.uk under the nick Moreau (Burning Man on SHHF.com) translated it into English a quite some time ago. Since then, it's spread over all the English SH community (mostly over forums) and is widely used in theories and also for references. I know SilentPyramid has also used it as a reference. But the thing is, when I tried to search this forum and some other Russian Silent Hill sites, I haven't found it anywhere -- neither translated nor English.
So I decided to present it here, for I'm sure some people will find it interesting.

The original version:

Spoiler

赤の日記・４月１０日 **** SH2004.com からのメールマガジン ****

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今日はひさしぶりにあの森の中にある
「希望の家」跡に行ってきた。
あるルートからあそこの鍵を
手に入れることができたからだ。
その鍵で今や廃墟となった「希望の家」
に入ることができた。
１階には机や椅子などの家具が散乱
している大きな部屋、それに祭壇の
しつらえられた比較的小さめの部屋があり、
２階は信者と子供達が生活するための小部屋
が幾つもあった。
ここで私はある書物を発見した。
それは教団で用いられている経典ではなく、
むしろ教団にとっては不利な内容の本だ。
まだ軽くしか目を通していないので、
この日記を書きおえたら読解してみる
つもりだ。

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やっとこの本を読み終えた。
これはとんでもない代物なのかもしれない。
教団は表向きには崩壊しているが、
水面下ではまだ活動を続けていると確信
している。
つまりこの本を持っていることで、いつ、
私の身に危険が及ぶかわからないという
ことだ。
しかし、やがてこの本が必要とされる時まで、
命を張ってでも、私はこれを護らなければな
らない。
ところで、先日、「希望の家」跡に踏み込ん
で以来だが、毎晩のように奇妙な夢を見る
ようになった。

小さな子供が、寝ている母親の体を揺すりな
がら”ママ…おきて…ママ…”と、泣きなが
ら繰り返し懇願しているのだ。
そして背中を向けていた母親がゆっくりと
振り返ると…
ここでいつも目が覚めてしまうのだ。




赤の日記・６月１７日 **** SH2004.com からのメールマガジン ****

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ついにだいさんのぎしきがはじまった
あとすこし・あとすこしだ
そのあと・さいごのぎしきで
すべてが・かんせいだ
ままが・おきる・おきるよ・おきるよ
おきるよおきるよおきるよおきるよお
おきるよおきるよおきるよおきるよお

私はいったい何を書いているのだ…。



赤の日記・７月７日 **** SH2004.com からのメールマガジン ****

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ある筋からの情報によって、ようやく
教団内部の派閥や人間関係が見えてきた。
あの教団には、かつて、３つの主な派閥
があったのだ。
それが「聖女派」「聖母派」
「ヴァルティエル派」であるという。
「聖女派」とは、司祭ダリア・ギレスビーを
中心とした派閥で、特殊な能力を秘めた
女性の胎内に神の子を宿すことにより、
神が復活すると信じていた。

「聖母派」は、「聖母の岩」を聖体として
奉っていたが、自らが運営する「希望の家」
を利用して子供たちを洗脳し、「術者」を
育て上げ、「術者」による神（＝聖母）の
復活をめざしていた。

「ヴァルティエル派」は、「赤い悪魔」という
異名を持つ司祭、ジミー・ストーンを中心に、
神に近い存在であり処刑人であもある
「ヴァルティエル」を崇拝する派閥だ。
「ヴァルティエル派」は、互いに反目し合う
「聖女派」と「聖母派」を取り持つ役割も
担っていたとされる。



赤の日記・７月２１日 **** SH2004.com からのメールマガジン ****

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何だか変な手紙について書かれてるざますが・・・・
およよ？！　こ…これは？！♪


今日、私の元に、おかしな手紙が来ていた。
差出人は…メラコシ…、そんな知り合いは
いないが、日系人だろうか。
手紙の内容も理解できない。
----------------------------------
その１
「新たなる恐怖」の、あの森に、
「チェーンソー」を忘れてきてしまったので、
取りに行ってくれたまえ。

その２
９０点以上のセーブデータから開始した
「新たなる恐怖」では、
ペットショップガーランドが襲撃された時の
凶器である「サブマシンガン」がアパートの
どこかにあるはずだ。取ってきてくれたまえ。
あれは呪われてるかもしれないが、
アイリーンに使ってもらったら、さぞ楽しい
に違いない。

その３
アイリーンが無事に生き残れた
「新たなる恐怖」で、３０２号室の外の世界
のアイリーンの部屋に「ナースの制服」がある。
アイリーンにはこんな趣味があったのか…。
これも取ってきてくれたまえ。
「その「ナースの制服」を持った状態で、
再びアイリーンが無事に生き残れることが
できたなら、その彼女の趣味を見ることが
できるだろう。

更に…シンシアも……。」

その４
１００点取ると……。

スグル・ムラコシ
----------------------------------
何の事だろうか。

７月２１日


アイリーンのナース衣装？も、シンシアの過激衣装も、見たいざますよねぇ♪
そりゃもう、すごいざます♪
・・・と、期待させて見るざます（笑）



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赤の日記・８月２５日

ああ
君はなぜ僕の苦しみに気付かないのか
アイリーン
アイリーン
アイリーン
気付いてくれ
アイリーン
やっとここまで崩したんだよ
アイリーン
それなのに・君は可愛らしい顔をして
ずっとテレビにかぶりついているのかい
ずっと化粧をほどこしているのかい
ずっと誰かと電話で話しているのかい
アイリーン
アイリーン
君もいつまでも・その可愛らしい顔を
していられないんだよ
だから・アイリーン
アイリーン
気付いて・アイリーン
きづけ・アイリーン
ぼくのほうを・むけ・あいりーん
ぼくを・・あいりん
ぼぼくくいくあいり
ぼぼぼぼぼ

The English Version (translated by Moreau/Burning Man):


Another Red Diary

Red Diary : April 10th

It's been a long time, but today I've come back from the "Wish House" site that resided within the woods.
That's because I was able to acquire the key to the place through a certain route.
With that key, I was able to enter "Wish House" which has now been in ruins.
On the first floor, there was a big room, where there were furnitures such as desks and chairs scattered about, and a relatively smaller room, where one could have installed an altar.
On the second floor, there were several back rooms for the followers and the children to live in.
This is where I had discovered a certain book.
That wasn't the holy script that the Order was using, but more likely, it was a book with contents that were disadvantageous to the Order.
I've since only skimmed through it, so when I'm finished writing my entry, I'm planning to comprehend it.

---
Red Diary : April 16th

I've finally finished reading this book. Perhaps this is something terrible. On the surface, the Order has been demolished, but I am positive that they are still active under the water's surface. That is, by keeping the book with me, I don't know when I will be put in danger. But until the time comes when I need this book, I must protect it even if it costs my life. By the way, since I've stepped into the "Wish House" site this past day, I'm starting to have strange dreams every night.

A little kid is shaking his mother's body, crying, "Mama...wake up...mama...," and continuously pleading to her. And when the mother, who had her back turned toward me, slowly turns around... That's when I always wake up.

---
Red Diary : June 17th

Finally, the third ceremony has begun.
In a little while. A little while longer.
After that. With the final ceremony.
Everything. Will be complete.
Mama will. Wake up. Wake up. Wake up.
Wakeupwakeupwakeupwakeup
Wakeupwakeupwakeupwakeup

What in the world am I writing...?

---
Red Diary : July 7th

With the information from a certain source, I've barely come to understand the factions and the human relations within the cult.
Earlier, there were three main sects within that cult. They are called the Sect of the Holy Woman, the Sect of the Holy Mother and the Sect of Valtiel.

The Sect of the Holy Woman, a faction centered around Priestess Dahlia Gillespie, believed in the resurrection of the god by impregnating a woman, who has concealed special powers, with the child god within her womb.

The Sect of the Holy Mother used to show respect to the "Mother Stone" as a holy entity, but by using their self-operated "Wish House," they brainwashed the children and raised a "conjurer" to achieve the goal of resurrecting the god (= Holy Mother) through this "conjurer."

The Sect of Valtiel, centered around Jimmy Stone, a priest with an alias "Red Devil," was a faction that worshipped Valtiel as the one close to god and also an executioner. The Sect of Valtiel was also responsible for the intermediation of the Sect of the Holy Woman and the Sect of the Holy Mother, which were in opposition to each other.

---
Red Diary : August 25th

Aaahh
Why is it that you have not become aware my pain?
Eileen
Eileen
Eileen
Please become aware
Eileen
I've barely tore it down this far
Eileen
Even so. You put on your pretty face and you're always hogging the television, aren't you?
You're always putting on makeup, aren't you? You're always talking to someone on the phone, aren't you?
Eileen
Eileen
Even you can't keep that pretty face forever
So. Eileen
Eileen
Become aware. Eileen
Become aware. Eileen
Turn. Towards me. Aireen
Me.. Airin
M.m.e.e Me Airi
M.m.m.m.m.


And as an addition I've translated it into Russian!


Another Red Diary (Russian)

Красный Дневник, 10 Апреля

Немало времени уже прошло, но сегодня я наконец-то вернулся из лесов, в которых расположен Дом Надежды (Wish House). Все это благодаря тому, что я смог достать ключ к этому месту через определенные источники. Итак, с этим ключом я смог попасть внутрь Дома Надежды, который к тому времени уже был в руинах.
На первом этаже располагалась большая комната, в которой повсюду была разбросана всевозможная мебель от столов до стульев, а также относительно маленькая комната, в которой, по всей видимости, был установлен алтарь.
На втором этаже было несколько подсобных помещений, где, по-видимому, жили служители и дети. Как раз там я и обнаружил эту книгу. Это не было священным писанием, которым пользовался Орден (the Order), как раз наоборот – скорее это была книга, содержание которой было невыгодно Ордену.
С того самого момента я только бегло полистал ее, но как только я закончу писать эту запись я собираюсь серьезно взяться за ее освоение.

---

Красный Дневник, 16 Апреля

Я, наконец-то, закончил чтение книги. Не исключено, что что-то ужасное творится на самом деле. Внешне, Орден больше не существует, но я уверен, что тайно они все еще действуют. Так что даже просто обладая этой книгой, я, пожалуй, подвергаю себя большой опасности. Тем не менее, пока не настанет момент, когда она может мне понадобиться, я должен беречь ее даже ценой собственной жизни.
Кстати говоря, с того самого дня, как я посетил Дом Надежды, мне каждую ночь начал сниться один и тот же сон: маленький мальчик трясет тело своей матери, постоянной крича "Мама… проснись… мама…", моля и упрашивая ее при этом. И когда мать, что все это время стояла ко мне спиной, начинает медленно оборачиваться… здесь я всегда просыпаюсь.

---

Красный Дневник, 17 Июня

Наконец-то, третья церемония началась.
Уже не долго. Уже совсем не долго осталось.
И потом. Потом последняя церемония.
Все. Будет закончено.
Потом Мама. Проснется. Проснется. Проснется.
Проснетсяпроснетсяпроснетсяпроснется
Проснетсяпроснетсяпроснетсяпроснется

Да что за бред я такой пишу…?

---

Красный Дневник, 7 Июля

Благодаря собранной мною информации, я более-менее смог разобраться в структуре и человеческих взаимоотношениях внутри культа.
Ранее, там было 3 основных секты внутри культа. Они назывались: секта Святой Женщины (the Sect of the Holy Woman), секта Святой Матери (the Sect of the Holy Mother), и секта Валтиеля (the Sect of Valtiel).

Секта Святой Женщины это структура, объединенная вокруг жрицы Далии Гиллеспи. Они верили в воскрешение Бога путем зачатия дитя Божьего в чреве женщины, обладавшей особыми скрытыми силами.

Секта Святой Матери выражала почтение "Материнскому Камню" (Mother Stone) как святой сущности, и, в то же время, используя находящийся под их управлением приют Дом Надежды, они промывали мозги детям и пытались вырастить "Колдуна" (conjurer) с целью воскрешения их бога (=Святая Мать) через этого "Колдуна".

Секта Валтиеля была объединена вокруг Джимми Стоуна, жреца с псевдонимом "Красный Дьявол". Эта структура почитала Валтиеля как близкого к Богу, а также как палача. Секта Валтиеля также отвечала за посредничество между сектами Святой Женщины и Святой Матери, которые были в противоборстве друг с другом.

---

Красный Дневник, 25 Августа

Ааааааа
Почему ты все еще не узнала о моей боли?
Айлин
Айлин
Айлин
Пожалуйста, узнай
Айлин
Я еле-еле продолбил так далеко
Айлин
И все же. Ты все время делаешь такое милое личико и зависаешь перед телевизором, не так ли? Все время накрашиваешься и разговариваешь с кем-нибудь по телефону, а?
Айлин
Айлин
Даже ты не сможешь поддерживать это милое личико вечно
Так что. Айлин
Айлин
Узнай Айлин
Узнай же Айлин
Повернись. Ко мне. Айрин
Мне. Арин
Ммне. Ммм Айри
М.м.м.м.

The most interesting one is definitely the entry on July 7 which tells in detail about the sects of the Order.

Also sombody might have noticed that the entry on July 21 was not translated. Well, the thing is, it's not a plot-related entry, but a list of the secrets in the game -- like, for instance, how to take the Eileen's Nurse uniform, the Submachine Gun and so on. The funny thing is: it's stylized to look like a letter from Suguru Murakoshi to Joseph!

Изменено: Kromy, 17 Июль 2007 - 00:11

[Wialenove]

Hell yeah! Really interestin stuff (about the sects especially). Thanks!

[Renyxa]

You put on your pretty face and you're always hogging the television, aren't you?
You're always putting on makeup, aren't you? You're always talking to someone on the phone, aren't you?

ha-ha, nothing has even changed since Joseph was watching Eileen I guess the girl was a really boring thing like Henry, they two deserve each other =)

[Burning Man]

Cool! Never saw a Russian translation before.

[Kromy]

Umm... could it be that you are the Burning Man? That sure would be a miracle should Moreau/Burning Man really come here!

Anyway, some additional in-top info: Another Red Diary also can be found in the Silent Hill 4 The Room Official Guide Complete Edition (at least that's what I heard):



In the entry from April 10th Joseph writes about the key to the Wish House he got "through a certain route". I just thought, could this key business be in any way connected to the key Henry had to leave in the apartment in order to get inside of the Wish House? Maybe the riddle in the game is some kind of otherworld's reflection of the Joseph's story with the key...

The book he finds on the second floor is of course the Crimson Tome. I wonder what was the reason for it to be there -- I mean, it's clearly meant to stop a conjurer from the Holy Mother sect that operated the Wish House. So what's the deal with keeping such a book?

Also, it's an interesting fact that Joseph started having those dreams about little Walter after he had visited the Wish House. I wonder if the great part of that "Wisdom" about Walter had been revealed to him through those dreams. :gg:

That entry from June 17th, it sounds like he was being possessed by Walter's feelings having some kind of foresight about the events yet to come -- "the third ceremony" -- no doubt it's about the Third Sign, which begun 2,5 years after that with the murder of Cynthia. An interesting detail.

Изменено: Kromy, 20 Июль 2007 - 19:05

[Burning Man]

Umm... could it be that you are the Burning Man? That sure would be a miracle should Moreau/Burning Man really come here!

Thank you. Yes, I am he.

Anyway, some additional in-top info: Another Red Diary also can be found in the Silent Hill 4 The Room Official Guide Complete Edition (at least that's what I heard):

Unfortunately, you're mistaken. I'm not sure where you got that idea from. The official guidebook does not contain "Another Red Diary."

The book he finds on the second floor is of course the Crimson Tome. I wonder what was the reason for it to be there -- I mean, it's clearly meant to stop a conjurer from the Holy Mother sect that operated the Wish House. So what's the deal with keeping such a book?

From what I did gather, the book may have belonged to Sharon Blake's son. More on this later.

That entry from June 17th, it sounds like he was being possessed by Walter's feelings having some kind of foresight about the events yet to come -- "the third ceremony" -- no doubt it's about the Third Sign, which begun 2,5 years after that with the murder of Cynthia. An interesting detail.

This particular entry was created to show the audience that somehow Joseph (an otherwise ordinary man) acquired the power of premonition. His power peaks during the first couple of days in August. You may remember that the monologue in the Intro and the contents of the Red Diary match, word-for-word.

[Kromy]

OO ...Wow! Ok, for now I believe that you really are Moreau (I still have PM'd you over the SHF just in case =).

Unfortunately, you're mistaken. I'm not sure where you got that idea from. The official guidebook does not contain "Another Red Diary."

That's strange, I thought I've already mentioned it before at SHF and you didn't correct me back then (at least not about this)... here's this page: http://www.silenthil...ead.php?t=30576. And also I remember another thread (this one) where you yourself mentioned the info about Valtiel-executioner being taken from the official SH4 guidebook -- isn't it the same content from Another Red Diary (July 7th)? I do understand that maybe this content doesn't have the name "Another Red Diary" on it, for it might have been just a name given to it over the internet, as well as "Another Crimson Tome" and "Victim List" also might be called differently. It's just I'm sure if the book has the words "Complete Edition" on it -- it should contain all the relevant for the game info in it.

From what I did gather, the book may have belonged to Sharon Blake's son. More on this later.

Wow, this is really interesting! Never thought about that, but this would make sense! I would like to hear your ideas on this, and I'm going to think about it myself too, actually. :gg:

This particular entry was created to show the audience that somehow Joseph (an otherwise ordinary man) acquired the power of premonition. His power peaks during the first couple of days in August. You may remember that the monologue in the Intro and the contents of the Red Diary match, word-for-word.

Oh yeah, that dream in the intro and that memo in the room of the past. So that power of premonition allowed him to see that dream Henry will be having for those 5 days prior to the game's beginning? Since he even saw Henry in that dream (the picture on the wall) and the 21 dead people on the other picture, guess it was a premonition of the 21 Sacraments ending -- would make sense for this particular scenario being encroached into Henry's dreams kinda warning him.

BTW, I've got another question: besides that power of premonition he also started having those dreams about Walter, which is probably interconnected, and all that begins since he visited the Wish House -- but what was the reason for all that? Could it be that Walter killed Joseph on the April 10th (I mentioned at SHF this logic chain: Walter could already kill him because he also finds the Old Picture book left by Toby -- the victim 14/21) and he became a ghost that does not realize his own death (in the manner it was described in the occult magazine in SH3)? I mean, sure, as you said, he is an ordinary man, but just that visit alone changes him way too much. What do you think happened to him there besides described in the memo?

[Burning Man]

OO ...Wow! Ok, for now I believe that you really are Moreau (I still have PM'd you over the SHF just in case =).

The thing is, I am on hiatus from all the English Silent Hill forums at the moment. But the PM system at SHF.co.uk was setup so that it would send me an e-mail regarding any received PMs. Just to confirm that I did receive yours, the title to that message was "one little thing..."

I knew about this place a long time ago. SilentPyramid's plot analysis document had a link to narod.ru, and the website there had a link to this forum here. Of course, I didn't have a reason to join back then, but now things are a little different.

That's strange, I thought I've already mentioned it before at SHF and you didn't correct me back then (at least not about this)... here's this page: http://www.silenthil...ead.php?t=30576. And also I remember another thread (this one) where you yourself mentioned the info about Valtiel-executioner being taken from the official SH4 guidebook -- isn't it the same content from Another Red Diary (July 7th)? I do understand that maybe this content doesn't have the name "Another Red Diary" on it, for it might have been just a name given to it over the internet, as well as "Another Crimson Tome" and "Victim List" also might be called differently. It's just I'm sure if the book has the words "Complete Edition" on it -- it should contain all the relevant for the game info in it.

I probably didn't get a chance to respond properly.

Like I mentioned, the "Complete Edition" does not contain "Another Red Diary." It does not contain "Another Crimson Tome" either. It contains the 'victim' profiles, but in a very watered-down version. However, the book does seem to dedicate some space for Walter and how the Order affected him during his upcoming, and that's where they touch upon the issue about the multiple sects in the Order. In fact, it's here that the book implies that there are more than three. It's just that the three sects we know were the major ones. And, yes, this is also where it confirms that Valtiel was worshiped as an executioner.

BTW, I've got another question: besides that power of premonition he also started having those dreams about Walter, which is probably interconnected, and all that begins since he visited the Wish House -- but what was the reason for all that? Could it be that Walter killed Joseph on the April 10th (I mentioned at SHF this logic chain: Walter could already kill him because he also finds the Old Picture book left by Toby -- the victim 14/21) and he became a ghost that does not realize his own death (in the manner it was described in the occult magazine in SH3)? I mean, sure, as you said, he is an ordinary man, but just that visit alone changes him way too much. What do you think happened to him there besides described in the memo?

I do not believe Walter killed Joseph on April 10th for the simple reason that the timing of it would have surpassed Toby's own time to become a Sacrament, but I do believe that he was slowly being prepared to become the "Giver of Wisdom."

The occult magazine from SH3 should not be applied in this case because of this particular passage:

These spirits have lost their human
senses and memories and can only
keep replaying the pain and sadness
of the moment they died.

During the time Joseph is writing his entries, he does have his human senses in which he is spending most of his time trying to save himself.

[SilentPyramid]

Oh, i have read this thing somewhat around 2 years ago (but in different translations and i had to collect them all one by one) -- as far as i know, "Another Crimson Tome" files were sent via e-mail to those who subscribed at official japanese SH4 website before the release of the game in Japan. Personally, i think that most interesting among those files are April 10 file (because it gives a hint regarding the true chronology of events with Joseph) and also July 7 (because it gives a huge portion of info regarding the sects -- it was a huge help to me whan i was writing a "sects" section of SH PA).
And by the way i want to thank Moreau for the new translation.

[Kromy]

Ha, SilentPyramid beat me to it! XD

I knew about this place a long time ago. SilentPyramid's plot analysis document had a link to narod.ru, and the website there had a link to this forum here. Of course, I didn't have a reason to join back then, but now things are a little different.

Yeah I was sure you knew about SilentPyramid's plot analysis! So that's how you found this place -- cool! For you!

*maybe now we should invite St.Aatos (Lobsel_Vith) here for once she heard you're here -- she'll be here too in a minute! ^^*

Actually I'm sure you'll find something to discuss here if you plan on staying. I know besides SH series you also know a lot about Forbidden Siren (SIREN) series -- and that's most fortunate 'cause SilentPyramid also works on a similar plot analysis for the Siren. So I guess there will be something to discuss about Siren too.

Well, it's even possible to teach you some Russian so that you'll be able to use the main forum too! ^^ If you have managed to learn Japanese, I'm sure Russian won't be a problem for you! You know, the Russian version of SilentPyramid's plot analysis is much better!

I probably didn't get a chance to respond properly.

Like I mentioned, the "Complete Edition" does not contain "Another Red Diary." It does not contain "Another Crimson Tome" either. It contains the 'victim' profiles, but in a very watered-down version. However, the book does seem to dedicate some space for Walter and how the Order affected him during his upcoming, and that's where they touch upon the issue about the multiple sects in the Order. In fact, it's here that the book implies that there are more than three. It's just that the three sects we know were the major ones. And, yes, this is also where it confirms that Valtiel was worshiped as an executioner.

Wow, a great info! thank you very much! And yes, it seems that all this time I've been rather confusing people having not read the actual book myself I always referred to things I only vaguely heard from you on SHF. But now all this is finally clear.
So you think there really could be other sects we haven't heard anything about? I know SilentPyramid has a theory about it. It mostly inspired by the content of the Crimson Tome... well, I think you better discuss it with her.
And yeah, about Valtiel as an executioner -- that's what got me thinking it's just Another Red Diary included in there. BTW, now I wonder why that info on the 3 main sects was included in the Crimson Tome in the first place -- the book with disadvantageous content for the whole cult... :gg: If there are other sects, they could be kinda secret ones and while the main ones were destroyed after Joseph's activities and Heather's tale of revenge, those might have been left untouched.
Also, I don't know if it was discussed somewhere, but could there be some distinctive motive for killing off the sect of executioners first, besides possible Walter's personal negative feelings towards Stone and Rosten? Whenever I think about it, it always appears to be strange that the sect of Valtiel was destroyed completely, but the sect of Holy Woman hadn't been touched at all...

I do not believe Walter killed Joseph on April 10th for the simple reason that the timing of it would have surpassed Toby's own time to become a Sacrament, but I do believe that he was slowly being prepared to become the "Giver of Wisdom."

The occult magazine from SH3 should not be applied in this case because of this particular passage:

These spirits have lost their human
senses and memories and can only
keep replaying the pain and sadness
of the moment they died.

During the time Joseph is writing his entries, he does have his human senses in which he is spending most of his time trying to save himself.

Oh yes, completely agree! When I asked this question I still wasn't completely sure if you're really Moreau. But now, I of course remember that discussion over SHF where you've just perfectly explained this about Joseph! And I believe on April 10th something did happen to him -- maybe he for the first time came in contact with Walter's reality -- not necessarily being pulled in into it, but more like "Walter's had become aware of the journalist Joseph". But since Walter the human already did not exist by that time, this "become aware" is more like if Joseph made the first steps into the Walter's world. We can call it "being influenced" or, as wallofdeath called the similar situation in SH1, "Walter's dreams encroached into Joseph's mind".

Well, I'm looking forward to hear your ideas about Sharon Blake's son and the Crimson Tome. Come to think of it, her famaly were the members of the cult (the Victim List says) and also it says that "the church had abducted her famaly"... well, guess we really can find a reason why: if her son (or someone else) kept such a book that would explain it all. But still, there are so many ideas about who wrote the book -- I made a thread on SH.us (unfortunetly has been shut down) about all the possible versions on who wrote the book, and there were many ideas involved: the Holy Woman sect (Aatos likes this one =), the Holy Mother sect itself and prticularly -- Toby Archbolt (I like this one =), a new idea I heard that it might have been Rosten or Stone (actually, Rosten is quite likely!), Christians of Silent Hill (I like this idea, maybe it even was me the one who first presented it). So this Crimson Tome is a mistery indeed! Why would Sharon Blake's son be keepng it I guess only you can crack this mistery!

Изменено: Monna STEW, 25 Июль 2007 - 14:33

[Burning Man]

And by the way i want to thank Moreau for the new translation.

You're quite welcome. My translation is about two years old as well, though. If the translation you found was in English, it could have been done by me.

as far as i know, "Another Crimson Tome" files were sent via e-mail to those who subscribed at official japanese SH4 website before the release of the game in Japan.

Well, the "Another Crimson Tome" is a translation done by excuse17 and is about Walter and his meeting with his future Sacraments. It's still available at the official Japanese SH4 website at this time. In Japanese, it's called [mou hitotsu no aka no sho]. [Aka no sho] is what the "Crimson Tome" is called in the Japanese script.

"Another Red Diary" otherwise known as [mou hitotsu no aka no nikki] is the one with Joseph's supplementary entries. It was originally sent to us through e-mail, who subscribed to Konami's newsletter through the official Japanese SH3 website at sh2003.com. It was later available at sh2004.com.

that's most fortunate 'cause SilentPyramid also works on a similar plot analysis for the Siren.

That's fantastic. I am a big fan of Siren. I even own the two 'Maniacs' book for both games. But it was hard to find anyone who liked it enough like Silent Hill.

Well, it's even possible to teach you some Russian so that you'll be able to use the main forum too!

That would be great. This is a pretty big forum, and it would be interesting to hear what fans from Russia think about Silent Hill.

So you think there really could be other sects we haven't heard anything about?

There is. That's what the book implies, anyway.

The creators of Silent Hill acquired this odd habit since SH3 that they would say something that seemed unimportant regarding the game itself. Such as in "Silent Hill Chronicle," they mentioned that Valtiel may look different giving an allusion that he might appear in different form in later games.

The information regarding the other sects is something like that. I think they had or have plans to introduce separate sects in the future.

Whenever I think about it, it always appears to be strange that the sect of Valtiel was destroyed completely, but the sect of Holy Woman hadn't been touched at all...

He did not have a grudge against the Order itself. I have a theory on why Walter killed off Stone and Rosten, and I think it might have been for very petty reasons. Hopefully, we can talk about it soon.

Once again, thank you for coming here! Enjoy your stay, and have a great time posting!

Thank you for the welcome.

Изменено: Burning Man, 22 Июль 2007 - 06:29

[SilentPyramid]

Well, the "Another Crimson Tome" is a translation done by excuse17 and is about Walter and his meeting with his future Sacraments. It's still available at the official Japanese SH4 website at this time. In Japanese, it's called [mou hitotsu no aka no sho]. [Aka no sho] is what the "Crimson Tome" is called in the Japanese script.

"Another Red Diary" otherwise known as [mou hitotsu no aka no nikki] is the one with Joseph's supplementary entries. It was originally sent to us through e-mail, who subscribed to Konami's newsletter through the official Japanese SH3 website at sh2003.com. It was later available at sh2004.com.

Yup, actually i meant "Another Red Diary". The names are quite similar, so it's easy sometimes to write the wrong name (^^)

That's fantastic. I am a big fan of Siren. I even own the two 'Maniacs' book for both games. But it was hard to find anyone who liked it enough like Silent Hill.

That's right - unfortunately SIREN still isn't as well-known as Silent Hill series (i believe it's mostly because SIREN was released exclusively for PS2), but i've been a SIREN fan for more than three years already (by the way, i also wrote a FS2 plot analysis and did a fan-translation for japanese SIREN movie), and i see that with time more and more people begin to like FS series. It's a good thing actually (^^)

He did not have a grudge against the Order itself. I have a theory on why Walter killed off Stone and Rosten, and I think it might have been for very petty reasons. Hopefully, we can talk about it soon.

I believe that after all that was done to him, it's quite possible that there was still anger towards the cult deep within the Walter's heart - childhood scars don't go away that easily... But carefully reading the Victims List files it becomes clear that Walter chose not just some random people -- but people with specific motifs for the roles of the victims in the ritual.

[Kromy]

That's fantastic. I am a big fan of Siren. I even own the two 'Maniacs' book for both games. But it was hard to find anyone who liked it enough like Silent Hill.

That's right - unfortunately SIREN still isn't as well-known as Silent Hill series (i believe it's mostly because SIREN was released exclusively for PS2), but i've been a SIREN fan for more than three years already (by the way, i also wrote a FS2 plot analysis and did a fan-translation for japanese SIREN movie), and i see that with time more and more people begin to like FS series. It's a good thing actually (^^)

I for one would be just happy to see you two discussing SIREN! I hope I'll be able to join you soon too -- once I get my knowlage of the whole series on the required level. XD

There's already a thread on the forum entirely dedicated to SIREN, here:

Forbidden SIREN topic

It's, of course, in Russian, but perhaps we can create an English one in this section of the forum... that sure would be more convenient given the situation.

The creators of Silent Hill acquired this odd habit since SH3 that they would say something that seemed unimportant regarding the game itself. Such as in "Silent Hill Chronicle," they mentioned that Valtiel may look different giving an allusion that he might appear in different form in later games.

The information regarding the other sects is something like that. I think they had or have plans to introduce separate sects in the future.

Well I see this approach as rather a positive one, because should those planted long ago ideas be really incorporated into the future games, they would come already having this subtle depth that would make them look more deep-rooted in the whole series. Like, for instance, the idea with Walter that was thrown into the second game as just a little background story but later became a basis for the whole new game. There are other examples of course, but in general it's all the same approach... so we can assume the idea with new sects can possibly get the same development. BTW, I do like this idea about Valtiel's appearance being a subjective matter -- after all, nor only it gives something to wonder about looking forward to new games, but it also allows to take a different view on already known matters (point in case: many times I've heard theories about Valtiel that were using this little remark as a basis for proving his connection to PH/Metatron/Xuchilbara and so on). So I hope they will take this idea into account in the future.

He did not have a grudge against the Order itself. I have a theory on why Walter killed off Stone and Rosten, and I think it might have been for very petty reasons. Hopefully, we can talk about it soon.

Would be interesting to hear it.

I believe that after all that was done to him, it's quite possible that there was still anger towards the cult deep within the Walter's heart - childhood scars don't go away that easily... But carefully reading the Victims List files it becomes clear that Walter chose not just some random people -- but people with specific motifs for the roles of the victims in the ritual.

Agree. It was very well described in your PA and really raises no doubts. But still, besides these ones, there might be another reasons... like, for instance, Walter's personal hatred towards the sect of executioners and their teachings of Valtiel. It's quite possible that he blamed them for having been brainwashed with Valtiel and eventually becoming "an inhuman killing machine" -- I mean, yes, we know that the Holy Mother sect was responsible for the 21 Sacraments he had to learn, however, it was Rosten the one who dedicated himself for raising a "conjurer" out of Walter. Perhaps he also hated the very existence of this sect which actaully was created by Jimmy Stone alone only some years prior to the Walter's appearence at the orphanage, or perhaps it were those schemes called "intermediation" what disgusted Walter... guess there are many things possible here.

Изменено: Kromy, 23 Июль 2007 - 01:59

[Burning Man]

It's, of course, in Russian, but perhaps we can create an English one in this section of the forum... that sure would be more convenient given the situation.

Good idea. But it's up to the administrators and moderators here, I guess. This is a Silent Hill English forum after all.

I believe that after all that was done to him, it's quite possible that there was still anger towards the cult deep within the Walter's heart - childhood scars don't go away that easily... But carefully reading the Victims List files it becomes clear that Walter chose not just some random people -- but people with specific motifs for the roles of the victims in the ritual.

You may be right. However, Victims #2 and #3, Bobby Randolph and Thane Martin, seem like Walter only met them there and then. Because it was their decision to go see Walter, and not the other way around. As far as the profile is concerned, he has had no history with the boys. Same can be said for the Locane siblings.

I have my doubts against Walter having a grudge against the Order itself. In fact, I am unsure that he had a grudge against Jimmy Stone either before the time of the killing. The "Complete Edition" explains that Walter went to Wish House to gather the artifacts for the Holy Assumption ceremony. It does not say that he went there to kill Jimmy Stone.

Also, chronologically, if Walter made his mind about whom to kill, there would have been no reason for him to wait to kill George Rosten. It makes little sense that Walter would come to Silent Hill to kill Jimmy, then go to Pleasant River, then go to Ashfield, and then come back again.

I think something happened at Wish House that made Walter decide to kill Jimmy and make him the first Sacrament. Jimmy is a rather special case compared to the other "Ten Hearts" Sacraments because he was killed "executioner style": a shot to the back of the head.

Maybe things will be clear if I read the updated plot analysis.

[SilentPyramid]

You may be right. However, Victims #2 and #3, Bobby Randolph and Thane Martin, seem like Walter only met them there and then. Because it was their decision to go see Walter, and not the other way around. As far as the profile is concerned, he has had no history with the boys. Same can be said for the Locane siblings.

Yes, but for Walter it might be possible to decide from the first sight whether the person fits in the specific victim's motif or not - he met Locane twins by pure chance and he immediately realised that he had to kill them for the ritual.

I have my doubts against Walter having a grudge against the Order itself. In fact, I am unsure that he had a grudge against Jimmy Stone either before the time of the killing. The "Complete Edition" explains that Walter went to Wish House to gather the artifacts for the Holy Assumption ceremony. It does not say that he went there to kill Jimmy Stone.

I believe you're missing one little detail. Jimmy Stone was SHOT WITH A GUN. From the back. Do you think that Walter just happened to find the gun somewhere along the road to Wish House and took it with him for a collection? I doubt it. It means that Walter from the beginning was planning to kill Jimmy Stone, when he went to Wish House.
And regarding of Walter's feelings of hatred role in choosing the victims, i think we should remember gruesome murder of Steve Garland or murder of Andrew DeSalvo -- i think it's clear that Walter's feelings of anger towards those people played a huge role when Walter chose the petshop manager as his victim (but maybe even Walter himself didn't realize his inner feelings). So, in this sense, Walter could kill Jimmy Stone too because inside of his heart he still holded a grudge towards everyone who tortured him in the childhood. And otherwise -- Walter didn't feel any hatred toward Eileen and that's why he hesitated so much, not able to kill her.